Speaker 1: 0:00

Now, when you're looking at turboprops versus jets, the nice thing about the turboprops is that a lot of them, again, are going to be owner-operator.

Speaker 1: 0:07

There are turboprops that cost more than private jets, so don't think that like, oh, I need to sell jets because I need to make big money.

Speaker 1: 0:12

Turboprops can be even more expensive than private jets. Hello and welcome everybody to the Jet Life Podcast. My name is Tom Lelio. I'm your ultimate jet guy.

Speaker 1: 0:26

Today we're pulling back the curtain on aviation to decide what market that you're going to be selling in, and we're going to get right into it. But if you have any questions, go ahead and put them in the comments below. Welcome to our YouTube family, our Facebook family, linkedin. Y'all are here. We really appreciate you being here today. It's going to be a quick one, but we want to get started right away. So when we're talking about what kind of market that we're going to get in first thing, we're going to start at the top of the funnel. We have to decide are we going GA versus business? Okay, so you're going to ask yourself are you a general aviation person or are you business aviation? Now there's also commercial aviation, where you're selling 737s and air buses and things of that nature. But really we're going to go between GA and business, and general aviation is going to be mostly your single pistons, maybe you get into turboprops, but mostly it's owner operators and you can make a good living. You know, selling 172s, 182s, pipers, diamonds, I mean there's just a lot of volume that can be done in the general aviation world. It's what you see when you go to Sun and Fun, when you go to Oshkosh. You know all the EAA stuff and you can make a good living. Shout out to my buddy at McGill Aviation, ryan McGill. He's on TikTok if you want to find a plane. I got to meet with him in Sun and Fun and so you know GA can be a great place to be in.

Speaker 1: 1:49

Next you want to look at business aviation. Now we're getting into the turboprops, we're getting into the light jets, the midsize jets, the heavy jets, and business aviation is where you're going to kind of shift and look at MBAA, the National Business Aviation Association, as opposed to like an AOPA kind of a thing. And let me oh, I apologize, let me go full screen here for you guys, sorry about that. So, yeah, so we're looking at business aviation is going to be light jets, turboprops. Usually things are going to be half a million dollars or more all the way up to, you know, 10, $20 million if you're looking at the super, super heavy jets, things that, like Steve Arsano and the jet business, are slinging, so check him out. If you're also looking to be a broker and so, whether you're a buyer or broker, we're here to help you buy or sell without wasting time or losing money. So, ga versus business, we're, for the purposes of today, we're going to go into business Okay.

Speaker 1: 2:41

So we're going to choose business. Now we got to get into. Do we want to do turboprops versus jets? Okay.

Speaker 1: 2:51

Now, when you're looking at turboprops versus jets, the nice thing about the turboprops is that a lot of them, again, are going to be owner operator and don't. There are turboprops that cost more than private jets. So don't think that like, oh, I need to sell jets because I need to make big money. Turboprops can be even more expensive than private jets, for example. What's really interesting? If you had like a $3 million budget, okay, you can get a newer, nicer, like aesthetically nicer, newer aircraft, a better you know better one in the turboprop category, versus $3 million jet. A $3 million jet is going to be older than the turboprop, it's going to be less fuel efficient, but it also might be more capable. And so you really have to ask your question like do I want to do turboprops or jets? Here's the thing Jets are for individuals that need the performance of a jet, because the jets will go faster, they go higher and, in most cases, further when you get into the midsize and the heavies.

Speaker 1: 3:50

So we want to keep an eye out for that. But good morning, good morning, what's up Tony, what's up Ryan? So the jets are going to be. Usually they're going to be faster. We're talking from like 200 to 300 knots in the turboprops to 300 to 400 knots in the jets. We're talking they're going to go higher, they're going to go above the weather. So a lot of the weather is going to be at you know, 18 to 28,000 feet. That's kind of where the turboprops, you know kind of max out at. The jets are going to get above the weather. Okay, but it's going to cost you more in in fuel and performance to get to get higher. And they're also probably going to go further, especially if you're looking at mid-size and heavy jets. These jets are going to go up and down East Coast, across the country, that sort of thing.

Speaker 1: 4:32

But all of this comes at a cost. So the turboprop is going to be more cost-effective. It's going to be less maintenance there's less stuff going on in there. It also may be more useful, and what we mean by useful is that when it comes to the turboprop, you can usually load those up a little bit more than you can a private jet. So if your mission relies on you taking a lot of stuff and people, then you might want a turboprop. If you don't need the speed, if you don't need to go above the weather, you just go around the weather. And if you don't need to go a very, very long distance and even some of the turboprops have a good distance on them but if you don't need this section, well then a jet makes more sense, I'm sorry then a turboprop makes more sense if you don't need this stuff.

Speaker 1: 5:21

So as a broker, you got to ask yourself like well, do you want to deal with the guys that are looking for this, or do you want to deal with the guys that are looking for this? These guys, the turboprop guys, are more owner operator, they're more down to earth, they're more like really invested in their aircraft because it's their personal thing, or you're dealing with a charter company that that's using them. These jets, they may be owner operators, but they're usually guys that are just kind of in a different worldview, different mentality than the turboprop guys. So you've gone from general aviation, you've chosen business jets, you've gone from turboprops versus jets and then you've chosen jets. Okay. So now we're in the business jets and now we're going to look at light versus mid versus heavy. Yes, I know there's another category, the supers, but we're just gonna go light, mid or heavy.

Speaker 1: 6:09

So this is again we're whittling down what we're looking at in terms of you know, what do we want to sell in the light jet category you're looking at? So here's the question we're gonna look at how far, how many people let's just stick with that how far you're going to go and how many people you're going to have. So, how far you're going to go with the light jets. You're going to go roughly a thousand nautical miles. In the mids you're going to be I'll be conservative and say 1400 nautical miles, and then your heavies are going to be, you know, 2200 plus. Then your heavies are going to be, you know, 2,200 plus. Okay, passengers in the light jet category are going to be four to six, mids are going to be six to eight, and now we're going to be eight to 12 or more in the heavy jets.

Speaker 1: 6:52

Okay, so, with this knowledge, okay, who do you want to work with? You also want to think about what it's going to take in terms of getting the deal across the line. When you're dealing with a light jet, by nature there's less stuff to break, there's less of a big, there's less of a thing to inspect. So your maintenance and your pre-buy stuff in a light jet is going to be less involved than with a heavy jet. You know, a heavy jet is going to have a lot of components that you're going to want to know about. They're going to have this is usually going to heavy jets going to come with programs that you're going to have to know about. There are going to be two pilots that you're going to have to worry about their training. There's going to be, probably operators involved.

Speaker 1: 7:35

You know, and and just just to give you an idea, the the, the starting out point in terms of budget. Okay, with a light jet we're going to be between 500K yeah, around 500K to a million to kind of get started. For half a million dollars we can find an old citation that's flyable, that's not just junk. In the midsize jet we want to be in the 2 million to 4 million starter range and the heavy jets we want I'll say 6 slash 8 million to 10 million to get our first jet. That's going to be heavy. So just by their nature, the markets that you're dealing in are going to be, I don't want to say, easier because it's a lower price point, but you just got to think about, like, well, the individual who's spending a million dollars on a jet versus the individual who's spending $10 million on jet. These deals are going to be more complicated. They're going to involve more people. They're going to involve flight departments, they're going to involve pilots, they're going to involve lawyers, they're going to involve CPAs and it's just, it's a big production that we're, that we're getting into.

Speaker 1: 8:44

When we're starting going here, versus in a light jet, you probably have an owner, operator, or maybe you have an owner and a pilot, maybe there's a mechanic. That's like a one man shop or four people shop, like the heavy jets, like you're taking it to a service center and doing a whole bunch of you know, inspections to it. The lights can be a little bit simpler, and then when we talk about you know if, okay, or a higher than 4 million, or higher than 10. Now we're getting into the levels of the vintage. So let's, I'll stop here for a second.

Speaker 1: 9:17

We've picked business aviation versus general aviation. We've chosen that we're going to do jets instead of turboprops Okay. Now we're going to do light, mid or heavy Okay, for the sake of argument, I'm going to go with light, because that's kind of where I like to be and have found success in. Now that we've chosen light, now we're going to choose how expensive what's our budget going to be in the light jets? And the reason that we're doing this is because the higher budget stuff is not necessarily going to get you more commission, and it's also could be. It's going to be a telltale sign of how hard it's going to be to call on these owners. If you're calling on somebody who can afford a half a million dollar jet versus a $5 million jet, those are two different conversations and there's probably going to be a lot more gatekeepers to get here.

Speaker 1: 10:10

Now you can swing for this and maybe make a better commission or have an easier sales process, cause I will tell you, when you're dealing down here it's like being a used car salesman. You just like in some ways you don't know what you're getting yourself into and there's all these surprises of old liens, maintenance that wasn't taken care of, and just you have a whole slew of different characters that when you get to a higher vintage or a higher level of jet sales it's a little bit smoother but it's also harder to get into. So you know it's risk versus reward. So lower risk, lower reward. Higher risk, higher reward. You know that's kind of.

Speaker 1: 10:42

I would just encourage you to kind of pick which you want to start and I would start out in the middle here trying to list something that's in the middle. So if we're talking about a million dollars and $5 million like some of here is like $2 million. So I'm going to start here with the idea of if I understand the middle market, then if I need to, I can go down a market, and now I have all this experience up here. So if I start in the $2 million range with, let's say, a citation 560, if I need to, I can drop down into a 501 or a 550 market because these guys are probably going to want to upgrade to a 560. Okay, and then I can also, one day I'll get into the encores these guys are going to want. These guys, the 501s, 550s are going to want to get into a 560.

Speaker 1: 11:35

So if I've already called through the 560 market, I know the market, I know what these planes entail. When I talk to the guys down here, I can talk to them and I can encourage them. Yeah, man, you know the five markets currently doing this. And oh, don't you love the upgrade on the on the JT15D-5 engines, like it's a lot better thrust than on the dash fours and it's got the unconditioned blades, so you don't have to worry about that.

Speaker 1: 11:58

And now I can have a conversation with the things that they want, okay, so I start in the middle. So we're business jet, business jet, light jet. And then I'm in the middle. I'm not the most expensive light jet, I'm not the most expensive light jet, I'm not. I'm not doing the, the, the, the bottom of the barrel light jets. Yet If I don't find success here, I can come down here if I need to, right?

Speaker 1: 12:19

So now we're in the middle of the and now we got to pick. Now we got to pick a, a make, make and model. Okay. So now we got to choose. You know what kind of manufacturer are we looking at? You know, one of the biggest ones is obviously Textron. You know, they took. They took Cessna and Beechcraft. Okay, so your Hawkers and your citations, like that's kind of where we're at in here. You've also got Lear is a big one. Okay, not really supported anymore, but that's, that's a common one. You've got Bombardier that's, that's a common one. Uh, you've got bombardier most, but they're not really in the light jet category. Uh, you've got embryo air and that's. You're looking at your phenoms. Uh, beachcraft. You also got your premieres. Uh, you've got your honda jet. You got eclipse. Oh, how do I pick? How do I pick and make a model?

Speaker 1: 13:08

Well, we're going to go into this and we're going to check out on controller and see what's available. You know, aviation aircraft sales is a popularity contest. If there's a ton of something on sale, it probably means that there's a ton of people that want to buy it. Or when you look closely, it might be because it's a fire sale, nobody wants it anymore. But we're going to take a look at it and see. You know how do we pick a make and model. So and this is like Ford is like Chevy, you know it's like Chevy, you know it's you pick a team and then you just pick a team and then you look at the competitors and compare them to a team. It's easier to pick a team and then compare things around it as opposed to like, ok, I'll look at the Cessnas and the Lears and the Phenoms and like, try to compare all three at once, pick a team and then kind of compare them. So it's a bit easier for you to organize the information.

Speaker 1: 13:50

So again for us, we're going to go with the Textron, we're going to go with the Cessna, we're going to go with the Citation line, okay. And then we're going to look at it and there's different makes and models. We're going for the light jet, so you might be at the 560, but within the 560, you've got the straight 560. You've got the ultra, which is a little bit newer. You got the encore. So within your make and model you'll have different years or different models. I guess, if you will, and so you just learn the basics on these, we go through it, we go to and I'll show you exactly how we're going to do that on the screen right now. But this is how we break down from the very top of, how we figure out the make and model. If you have questions, go ahead and put them in the comments below.

Speaker 1: 14:40

But just to kind of go over this one more time general aviation versus business aviation. We chose business. Turbo products versus jets. We went to jets Light, mid and heavy. We went with the light jets. Uh, light, mid and heavy. We went with the light jets. Um price point, we went with the middle range of of of the of the light jets that we're going to be looking at. So we're in like the two million dollar range, so that this is going to directly impact the make and model, because now we're Maybe a Phenom 100, a Citation Jet, not quite the Honda. The Honda is going to be a little at the top of it, but we can look at it. We're looking at Premieres, okay. So now that I know my price, my light jets, in this price point you know around $2 million now I can pick the make and model. Then, once I pick the make and model, let's say I went with a Citation Jet. Now I can pick a CJ, cj1, cj1 Plus and just find out more about that. So again, if you've got any questions, let me know.

Speaker 1: 15:44

But let's go ahead and switch. We're going to go into the screen, all right. So here we are in controller. Yeah, the Falcons, that's right. That's right. Hey, ian, what's up, frank? So okay, so we're in controller.

Speaker 1: 15:59

We've decided we're going to go with the jet aircraft. So click on jet aircraft, let's see what we got here. Okay, so now we're going to go to the category. I guess we already did jet craft, so we're good there. Next we'll go to the manufacturer. We decided we're going to go with Cessna. But even just right here, look at the manufacturer.

Speaker 1: 16:16

On the light jet category, there's 342 light jets by Cessna for sale. There's 200 from Gulfstream, 151 from Bombardier, 129 from Dassault, 98 from Lear, 85 from Hawker, 63 from Embraer, which is the Phenoms, and the Praters, beechcraft 36, boeing 32, and Sears 30. So these are the popular ones. So if I'm thinking about getting into the jet market, I want to know what the popular jets are, all right. So let's explore. Let's just do the Cessnas, all right.

Speaker 1: 16:55

Then we go to select models. Citations there's four longitudes 750s, 19, 26, 16, 61. Whoa, what's going on here? Citation 560s oh wow, there's a lot of these. It's including the XLS. These are midsize, so that's going to impact the numbers.

Speaker 1: 17:11

550s. There's 53 there. 525 is 112. So you can get a picture now, right, we're getting a picture of what's popular. So we've decided on business jets and now by using controller, we can see it's a popularity contest.

Speaker 1: 17:26

A lot of 550s here. A lot of them are citation twos. Maybe that means it's a popular model. We'd have to look and see like are things actually selling or is this like a fire sale situation, or is there just a lot of them? I'll tell you, there's like 400 plus 550s in the world, so there's just a lot of them that were made. So when they go for sale, the fact that there's 30 for sale, that's less than 10% of the total fleet. So that's about right, that's about average. But what you want to worry about is if you saw like a hundred of them for sale where it's 25% for sound, then it's like, okay, that's a bad market to be in.

Speaker 1: 18:03

So you know, we're looking in here and let's take a look at the citation. Let's go with this CJ. So the citation jet right here, 18. So the 525 citation jet. I know that that's in the 1 million to $2 million category. So that's why I'm going to look at that.

Speaker 1: 18:16

Maybe I'll look at the Mustangs too. Okay, apply, filter and close. And now we start looking at them. Okay, 1.5 for CJ. Here's a Mustang, cj is 1.7, 1.7. Okay, okay, so this might be a market that I want to look into now.

Speaker 1: 18:35

And now I have to go through the training I'm sorry the steps of establishing Hold on, let me get rid of the citation check. Let's say I pick the Mustang. Now I need to go through all the steps that we talked about how to do a market valuation. How do I go to controller? What are the steps that I need to take? What are the? You know what are the steps that I need to take, and let me see if I can pull this up. Yep, here we go.

Speaker 1: 18:58

So this is from our, this is from our, our JetLife Academy. You know what we teach you how to do a market valuation by understanding the makes and models. You know this is these are the details that we're going to want to need per make and model. And then, when we call the brokers, we're going to want to ask them these questions to get a real good sense of the market. And we put that all into our market report right here that we're starting to build.

Speaker 1: 19:22

We get the year, the serial number, the registration number and this is all the spreadsheet that you guys can make on your own. There's nothing proprietary here. It's just organizing it so that you can say what's the average year, how many are for sale. Organizing it so that you can say what's the average year, how many are for sale, what's the average price. Okay, this is how it all flows.

Speaker 1: 19:39

And so becoming a let me just remove this here. So so becoming a private jet broker, I mean these are your first steps. We, we, we got to pick a market for you to be in. You know, when you're working with with JetLife Arrow, we have other tools like JetNet that can show you the data like here's how many are in the fleet, here's how many are for sale. Give you an idea of if it's a buyer or seller's market within this, and then we can pick it that way and get you prices a little bit easier.

Speaker 1: 20:04

But if you don't have JetNet, if you're not working with a broker, these are the steps that you need to go through to figure out what jets or turboprops or aircraft you want to sell. You start with general aviation versus business and you work your way all the way down and then you use the data on controller. If I go this route, what are the manufacturers that I can look at, what are the popular models from these manufacturers? And then go find out more information about those makes and models. Use globallayercom, use VREF, use Avbuyer, use all these resources to become more knowledgeable about this stuff and then start calling through the market. Once you're calling through the market, now you have a pulse for it. Now you can go find buyers and sellers and put them into into that market and start making deals happen.

Speaker 1: 20:44

So this is this is the process, right? It's not? It's not, uh, it's not anything super complicated. It's just step by step by step. And you know, I invite you, if you've been thinking about this, you know, maybe you're in a spot where you're just not sure, like where your career is at and you're trying to find out more information about, you know, becoming, you know becoming a jet broker.

Speaker 1: 21:05

I would encourage you to check out our circle community. So I would encourage you to join the circle community, go to circlejetlifeaerocom and there we've got a discussion board where you can ask questions. But here's the deal. You know, if you're thinking about getting into aircraft sales, I'd love to help you and we have a free resource for you in the Circle community. It also includes a free training. We've also got courses in there and you know I want to show you how. You know I went from zero to a six-figure year, my first year, and then just kind of multiply that out as I continued, and I'd love an opportunity to work with you and talk to you more. So join the circle community. We'll be back next week, you know, on a let's see. Thank you so much for, for, for joining us today and we'll, we'll, we'll catch you guys later.